Impressions/Questions

Talk about FE7x here, plz.
Ghoul King
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Joined: 06 Feb 2017, 18:30

14 Feb 2017, 18:31 #16

Got halfway through the mission to kill Richard, got the Checkpoint, then shortly afterward whoops accidentally closed the program. (This laptop apparently has a button that just does that? And of course it's right next to the volume-up button because that's a good idea /sarcasm) Didn't lose much progress, but re-doing stuff is sufficiently annoying I moved on to other things for the moment.

Druid caught me off guard. I was legitimately expecting Niime to be the Druid I was seeing in Support preview, even though I was kind of hoping to get her as a Shaman. I like his color scheme, even though I'm a little disappointed at how bright it is. Oh well. I quite like how he not only has his "I am creepy" skill but the game actually displays its radius passively! (Though it took me a minute to realize I wasn't seeing the "display enemy strike zone" effect in the middle of my forces. Could maybe use a tweaking so it's more obvious that it's a different thing?)

To my surprise, I actually managed to recruit both the mounted troops and Bart. Bart got down to like 2 HP, but thankfully the AI was more inclined to attack his buddies than him and I was able to get Isadora to Rescue him away so Uther could talk to him. Interesting how the dialogue is suggesting that either Bart wouldn't be present if I hadn't let a Junior die or that things would somehow be different otherwise. (Bart would've already joined?) Definitely looping back and redoing the Fog mission to see how it affects this one, later.

Not sure what to make of the Berserker, Sage, and Bard who showed up and tried to leave the map. I initially was all "oh god I'm supposed to recruit these idiots? They're going to get themselves killed before I can get ANYONE to them!" but then I couldn't find anyone who could talk to them and then the Berserker walked off the edge of the map so now I don't know what to think at all. The Sage died, incidentally, pretty much because a Poison Axe guy landed a 17% chance hit on her. (That and 50% chances keeping on hitting her, but she would've made it if the Poison Axe had missed) I liked the Bard's little animation. The bird in particular is cool. Not sure how to feel about the Rage skill. It sounds kind of ridiculous, especially if accuracy overflow applies to the accuracy gained from crit chance. ("I have so much crit chance I have EVEN MORE crit chance!") The Berserker was already the best of the mono-weapon promoted units, really, and so far promoted units have seemed to lean toward cool-but-not-ridiculous skills. (Which is good, because Occult Skills in the Radiance games are, to be blunt, dumb)

I was pleasantly surprised to notice that Richard has a "skill" bar. I'll have to actually get to him and fight him to be sure, but it strongly implies to me that, unlike the Radiance games, his skill doesn't just trigger totally at random, which is fantastic!

It actually took me a while to notice the mission was Kill Richard. Interesting. I was assuming a full rout would be necessary.
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deranger
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deranger
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14 Feb 2017, 19:21 #17

Your game didn't autosave when it closed? I thought the game saved after every action if you're using the resume feature.

Thanks for powering through despite losing a Junior.
[+] spoiler
Didn't know Bart could show up (he doesn't if you keep them alive, which I've always done). Guess I should try letting one of them die.


It's pretty impressive Meredith managed to die. The Phraean Elite are really OP for this point in the game. And usually it's Deacon who dies. Deacon's animation is Ephlin (from FE6), btw. Interestingly, I'm not sure the bird fits him, but that's definitely low on the priority list.
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Myke
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Myke
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15 Feb 2017, 14:12 #18

I didn't frame my point very well, I think. I'm trying to convey that 'fuck' as a swear word doesn't even have an equivalent in functionality, and doesn't, to the best of my awareness, work as a reasonable stand-in for something that has been dropped from English.

Like, Japanese is a super-duper-formal/polite language that doesn't even have swear words, but I don't object to various translations of Japanese media utilizing swearing, because what's often being done is an attempt to capture an idea that is not actually directly translatable. Pretty much anytime an English translation of Japanese media has someone saying 'You bastard!" the original Japanese was, instead, using a form of 'you' that is overly familiar and thus extremely rude to be using when said to someone who isn't a close friend -when modern English only has one form of 'you' in the first place and Americans in particular are so informal/crass/rude that it's basically impossible to convey "insufficiently polite" in a translation normalizing to American culture without just invoking swear words.

(Translations going for faux-medieval English are better able to lean on "this dude stopped being hyper-polite! How rude!" since they usually involve nobles and deliberately write said nobles as stiff and formal with each other on a constant basis)

The closest to just exclaiming "Fuck!" I'm aware of in sentiment in ye olde English is basically "Damnation!" You just didn't have a singular, one-word catch-all swear word that could be used by itself to express frustration, anger, etc.

So what I was trying to convey was less "the word 'fuck' is less than a hundred years old" ('cause yeah, I'm not expecting anything like Thou-as-singular-you being incorporated in because historical English is an incomprehensible mess) and more "the utility the word 'fuck' serves within the language is not a niche that was filled by any word at all until very recently, and thus the word is out of place".
Well-argued. But it's interesting you bring up Japanese translation, because that's exactly the basis of what I'm working with. Where a literal translation would just say 'Damn', in an interpretive translation the modern usage of the word doesn't carry the same weight as it did back then, so using it isn't really equivalent - in fact, it would be much more accurate to use our own version of the curse. Their dialogue is being rewritten in real-time to make sense to the sensibilities of a modern audience - there are a few times when characters use more archaic speech patterns, and they are supposed to be considered to be using even older language still.


Eeeeh. I'm personally not a fan of trying to say a class's distinguishing features include "higher stats" in a game where that's A: personal to characters and B: completely random anyway. The Diviner's real advantage over the Monk is that +5 damage against mages is a much bigger deal than +10 aim or evasion or whatever the Monk gets, in that case. Which isn't bad, particularly for the class locked to the weakest Tome over-category, but in conjunction with their reduced Move it's going to push them toward being a defensive anti-mage tool (That is: stand somewhere waiting for the enemy mages to come to them) compared to the Monk's more general utility for combat.

I've already noticed that enemy stats vary when generating a mission a lot more than in the official games (Where you'll see stuff like two Knights, one of which has 20 HP and 12 Defense, and the other has 21 HP and 11 Defense, and are otherwise identical, as about the extent of the game's randomization of enemy statlines) so this isn't even a caveat specific to player units, it applies universally.
What the 'higher stats' really matter for is the enemies, whose base stats and growths are calculated based on class type and set on a universal table. Each individual Lieutenant rolls their own stats, modified by their affinities, but they're rolling based on the class bases that are different between infantry, armours, cavalry, etc



@rescues: we're talking about giving armours the ability to Rescue and Drop on the same turn, do you think that would address your concerns?


I have no idea what was happening when we cut to some people accusing each other of being traitors, basically. Which is odd, because it feels like the scene is written under the assumption the player will actually understand what's going on and consider it to be of relevance to Uther's situation.
(Don't worry this scene isn't supposed to make sense just yet)


Not sure how to feel about the Rage skill. It sounds kind of ridiculous, especially if accuracy overflow applies to the accuracy gained from crit chance. ("I have so much crit chance I have EVEN MORE crit chance!") The Berserker was already the best of the mono-weapon promoted units, really, and so far promoted units have seemed to lean toward cool-but-not-ridiculous skills. (Which is good, because Occult Skills in the Radiance games are, to be blunt, dumb)
Don't worry, there's no feedback loop. The rage accuracy does not effect overflow.



EDIT:
'New' as in the release I downloaded less than two weeks ago that is doing no such thing or 'new' as in 'the upcoming release'?
oh sorry, new as in the upcoming release
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deranger
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deranger
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15 Feb 2017, 16:57 #19

Well-argued. But it's interesting you bring up Japanese translation, because that's exactly the basis of what I'm working with. Where a literal translation would just say 'Damn', in an interpretive translation the modern usage of the word doesn't carry the same weight as it did back then, so using it isn't really equivalent - in fact, it would be much more accurate to use our own version of the curse. Their dialogue is being rewritten in real-time to make sense to the sensibilities of a modern audience - there are a few times when characters use more archaic speech patterns, and they are supposed to be considered to be using even older language still.
Maybe this is why it works for me and not for some others. Definitely immerses me.

Eeeeh. I'm personally not a fan of trying to say a class's distinguishing features include "higher stats" in a game where that's A: personal to characters and B: completely random anyway. The Diviner's real advantage over the Monk is that +5 damage against mages is a much bigger deal than +10 aim or evasion or whatever the Monk gets, in that case. Which isn't bad, particularly for the class locked to the weakest Tome over-category, but in conjunction with their reduced Move it's going to push them toward being a defensive anti-mage tool (That is: stand somewhere waiting for the enemy mages to come to them) compared to the Monk's more general utility for combat.

I've already noticed that enemy stats vary when generating a mission a lot more than in the official games (Where you'll see stuff like two Knights, one of which has 20 HP and 12 Defense, and the other has 21 HP and 11 Defense, and are otherwise identical, as about the extent of the game's randomization of enemy statlines) so this isn't even a caveat specific to player units, it applies universally.

What the 'higher stats' really matter for is the enemies, whose base stats and growths are calculated based on class type and set on a universal table. Each individual Lieutenant rolls their own stats, modified by their affinities, but they're rolling based on the class bases that are different between infantry, armours, cavalry, etc
Highers, or different, stats is all there is to differentiate most t1 classes outside of weapon type. Mercenaries are myrmidons but with higher stats in some areas and lower in other. At least now we have skills to add to that, I guess.
@rescues: we're talking about giving armours the ability to Rescue and Drop on the same turn, do you think that would address your concerns?
That actually sounds reasonable to me, but just to provide a counterpoint on rescue and cover's usefulness- generally rescuing isn't part of the default plan, and mostly shouldn't be. It's to help move people across the map faster at the expense of other actions (or nothing, in which case, go for it), or to save your ass, but making it extremely uncostly (two units, usually) allows for some possibly cheap strategies.
Armours do need more selling points still, though.
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Ghoul King
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15 Feb 2017, 18:47 #20

BUG: the Gendarme and Vanguard you get in the mission, when activating their C Support, play Eirya (Not sure I'm spelling her name right) and the Thief's Support conversation. (Though it raises the correct Support ranking, thankfully) When activating their B Support, it goes to black and just informs you their Support went up, no conversation, before continuing the game.
Your game didn't autosave when it closed? I thought the game saved after every action if you're using the resume feature.
It did, actually, I just assumed the game had no such feature. I was very confused when I reloaded the game and I was still in the middle of the conversation with Bart.

Who didn't actually recruit, incidentally, he just gave Uther a Bond and became willing to move. To my surprise, he eventually retreated off the map down south -really, he should've died, as he was sitting on 2 HP for like 10 fights (Not an exaggeration!) where people had up to a 50% chance of hitting him.
It's pretty impressive Meredith managed to die. The Phraean Elite are really OP for this point in the game. And usually it's Deacon who dies. Deacon's animation is Ephlin (from FE6), btw. Interestingly, I'm not sure the bird fits him, but that's definitely low on the priority list.
Ah, Elffin. I'd essentially forgotten about him. It's pretty clearly a recolor, and a decent one. I suppose that would explain the disconnect between Deacon's portrait (Grizzled, bearded veteran) and his battle animation. (Pretty-boy)

I don't think it's that impressive Meredith died. She isn't really that strong for the map, and the only truly unlikely thing that happened to screw her over was the Poison Axe. Otherwise it was pretty on-odd -and she even got an improbable crit that delayed her death by a whole turn, as she should've suffered a retaliation on someone she attacked.

The Berserker is the only one of the bunch who I'd be genuinely surprised if he died, due primarily to his insane Evade and high HP.
Well-argued. But it's interesting you bring up Japanese translation, because that's exactly the basis of what I'm working with. Where a literal translation would just say 'Damn', in an interpretive translation the modern usage of the word doesn't carry the same weight as it did back then, so using it isn't really equivalent - in fact, it would be much more accurate to use our own version of the curse. Their dialogue is being rewritten in real-time to make sense to the sensibilities of a modern audience - there are a few times when characters use more archaic speech patterns, and they are supposed to be considered to be using even older language still.
Thanks.

I feel like you're trying to drive at something with the rest of this paragraph, but I honestly have no clue what it could be.
What the 'higher stats' really matter for is the enemies, whose base stats and growths are calculated based on class type and set on a universal table. Each individual Lieutenant rolls their own stats, modified by their affinities, but they're rolling based on the class bases that are different between infantry, armours, cavalry, etc
Interesting that Affinity goes into that, but I'd already noticed it and commented on it: Immortal Sword just has too much variance across enemies of a given class for it to be meaningful except in the aggregate. ("On average...") I'm fairly certain it's completely possible for a given mission to roll having a Monk completely outclass a Diviner, or close enough to not really matter, going by my experience thus far, making the distinction questionable at best, even for enemies.
@rescues: we're talking about giving armours the ability to Rescue and Drop on the same turn, do you think that would address your concerns?
That would be amazing and largely supplant what I call Rescue Shenanigans in utility, which is itself a good thing in my opinion. (The fact that Rescue Shenanigans are so useful, even though they're an exploit of a system not meant to serve this utility at all, is a fairly major flaw with the series) It would also, in an indirect way, fit with armors tending to be intended as tanks for other units: "Get behind me, I'll protect you!" as a class ability is definitely a good thing. It would also-also provide minor utility for shuffling formations about, which is already possible with Rescue Shenanigans, just more of a pain. (ie grabbing a character you want just a couple of spaces over for some reason -such as having the Warlock move to dump their aura on one set of enemies, fighting those enemies, and then having an armor shuffle them to the east to cover a different set of enemies that's juuust far enough out to avoid covering them at the same time as the first)

Two thumbs up, definitely.
oh sorry, new as in the upcoming release
Thanks for clarifying.
Highers, or different, stats is all there is to differentiate most t1 classes outside of weapon type. Mercenaries are myrmidons but with higher stats in some areas and lower in other. At least now we have skills to add to that, I guess.
Not in Immortal Sword, nor, to a somewhat lesser degree, in the official games. Immortal Sword has innate skills it passes out to base classes -it just keeps them relatively minor on base classes, which I personally find understandable but a bit disappointing. (I was really hoping Mercenaries and Myrmidons would be more strongly distinguished, for instance)

The official games also have a lot of room they don't take much advantage of. Like, in the GBA games your only mounted mage before promotion is the Troubadour, and in the majority of the games there's no flying unit that wields Bows or magic at all. Then there's the minor utility advantages the official games like to pass out, but largely fail to use to distinguish classes -Brigands can climb mountains and Pirates can walk on water, while Fighters have no advantage over either of them, and Mercenaries and Myrmidons have no distinction at all beyond what they promote into. (Okay, not completely accurate: Myrmidons can wield Shamshir/Wo Dao/whatever, while Mercenaries are normally given high enough Constitution they can use Blades. This barely counts though, as they're both just variations on having higher damage output through uncommon weapons)

That the official games insist on making almost-clone classes isn't a commentary on the limits of the Fire Emblem system, it's a commentary on how Intelligent Systems chooses to artificially restrict itself. Why are Thieves always Sword-wielding infantry, and never spellslingers implied or outright stated to use magic in their lockpicking? Why do spellcasters refuse to take to the skies, even though lore has never, in any game, suggested this makes any sense, and gameplay balance provides no obvious reason why this would be unfair? (Oh no, players might have their ranged fliers plink at units from range 2 out on the ocean, untouchable to dedicated melee? They can already do that with Javelins or, in some games, Hand Axes!) Why, for that matter, does the 'Thief package' have to be rolled together into one all-purpose utility unit -why not pass out enhanced vision to one of the less useful/distinct classes, so they bring something to the table on fog? (Archer would be my pick, personally)

(That said, I can understand why Immortal Sword, as a prequel, doesn't want to be getting too much into territory like "Here's Bern's band of wyvern-riding mage knights, which we somehow don't hear about at all in either of the other games")
That actually sounds reasonable to me, but just to provide a counterpoint on rescue and cover's usefulness- generally rescuing isn't part of the default plan, and mostly shouldn't be. It's to help move people across the map faster at the expense of other actions (or nothing, in which case, go for it), or to save your ass, but making it extremely uncostly (two units, usually) allows for some possibly cheap strategies.
Armours do need more selling points still, though.
(Emphasis mine)

I think you're playing devil's advocate and trying to say Rescue+Drop might open up cheap strategies? 'cause if so... um. No. It just makes the existing cheap strategies not require you to pay attention to the exact mechanics of a gameplay mechanic not even intended to allow these cheap strategies in the first place, and slightly reduces the requirements for pulling them off -which isn't even that big a deal, since Rescue Shenanigans is at its height when you have a dozen units hanging around a boss, unable to have all of them attack the boss in a single turn anyway.

------

So I beat the mission, pleasantly surprised by the auto-save feature. (Though I ended up accidentally cutting off the conversation between Bart and Uther in my confusion. Ugh, I don't want to replay the mission just to see that dialogue... especially since it was a miracle he lasted as long as he did)

I never saw Sol in action, because the one time Richard triggered it, he missed. (I know he triggered it entirely because his meter depleted) Still unclear on the mechanics of skills, as such. Oh well. I now know they can be wasted on a miss, at least, which is useful info for when/if I get such a skill myself, and I also know they charge as turns pass or something of the sort -I was actually expecting this to be kind of like Will in Taisen, with him only charging for participating in battles himself, so I've learned something.

I quite liked the touch that the Warlock is very useful for making Richard manageable, even though it's suicidal to have him actually fight Richard. It's kind of clever to me, since you recruit the Warlock in this very mission -a more subtle version of the Athos/Royal Laguz/etc sort of thing, requiring a player use their head but not requiring them to dedicate a deployment slot to the guy. (Or you can just hope Richard never gets a crit, or have gotten really lucky one someone's Luck growths, I guess)

Richard himself might be a bit too tough. Between Resire (Which, I noticed, did only seem to be a partial leech, admittedly), his durability, and his lethality (Isadora was my only unit tough enough to survive two hits from him, and she couldn't hit for more than 4 damage and has practically all her stats green! She's also one of my highest level units, too!) I ended up having to just burn out his Resire uses and then chip him down. He actually stopped giving experience when he had something like 8 uses left, too, so if bosses have a higher "no more experience" limit, it's not high enough that I noticed it.

I then got through to do Training and stuff for the next mission, so I've seen some more plot and seen that the Codex reference is just a regular promotion item for, among others, Diviners. Never mind the Ominous Foreshadowing then: it's just an enemy getting to use gameplay mechanics like the player. Which is plenty positive to me, mind.

Sort of amused that Mister Inquisitor is pretty blatantly the guy who gave out a torch earlier. Light in the darkness and all that, in a subtle allusion? Though honestly his portrait looks horribly out of place for the Diviner's battle graphic, as he looks like he's dressed up in full plate while the Diviner looks like they just have pauldrons/chest plating and maybe have chainmail under their monk robes.

I found it clever how we got faked out on Hassar's backstory. Just like Madelyn did, I assumed he was exiled or some such, not that he left on his own and is free to go back. I'd been wondering how the story was going to explain Lynn growing up a nomad.

Not sure how I feel about Richard's backstory. It sort of gives me the impression the writer wants us to feel bad for Richard, but honestly it just drives home what a jackass he is, from where I stand. On the other hand, I do think it's kind of interesting that we're getting a fairly Christian stereotypical character arc -a man who once was a terrible person, saw the light, and is now the most fervent of believers. Also interesting that he's the villain, where usually such characters are good guys. But mostly it's interesting to me because honestly Elibe is the Fire Emblem setting that's worst about "These Japanese game developers are having their Japanese culture leak into their attempt to make a largely-faithful-to-western-stuff setting" and so it's sort of interesting seeing a fangame subvert/'correct' that instead of trying to stay faithful to the games even though they're a bit... off, as a result.

(In most of the games, I find "Japanese game developers trying to utilize feudal Europe/western fantasy tropes" to be an interesting fusion, with the occasional painpoint like "Japanese writer, European castles were nigh-invincible strongholds you had to lay siege to, they weren't like your Japanese castles that were primarily used as a barracks/rally point rather than a defensive stronghold". The Elibe games, though, are trying so hard to pull from Arthurian legend and so on that when Japanese bits slip in it tends to end up looking very, very out of place and inconsistent with the parts that are pulled from western tradition. And I'm not talking about how the Nomads seem to be Mongols imported quite randomly into Not-Western-Europe, here)
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Ghoul King
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16 Feb 2017, 18:32 #21

Gotten through the first part of what the game is now playing up as honest and for true The Final Battle. (This was a bit jarring, after how much the previous mission got played up as The Final Battle)

Rain slowing your units down is... odd. The game presents it as another difficulty to deal with, making things harder for your units, but if anything it makes the mission easier, albeit more of a tedious slog to actually get through. Since units can't come shooting right out of the fog and attack you with no warning due to shortened move distances, and your scouts just plain can't end up in range of as many units to then be attacked, it actually basically makes the fog tolerable. It made it a nuisance to have people retreat to the tent for healing, I guess?

Incidentally, not thrilled with having my units dumped into the second part with no opportunity to choose their placement or anything. The tent ended up dumped in pretty much the worst possible location, and of course I can't do anything to fix it.

I kind of meant to comment on the Warlock having that extra arm motion before, and forgot, but now I'm really curious as to why it got added, having seen it applied to the female Warlock animation too. (Via the boss) I'd theorized it might be for one-arm-man in specific, but apparently not, so now I'm just plain puzzled.

Also meant to comment before on that I like that there's anti-horse fire magic, and pleased to finally see what I've long suspected would be a mechanic in Immortal Sword -variable damage bonuses! (The x2 on the Tome, vs the usual x3)

Uther's confrontation with the general was... odd. Why are Uther and this guy meeting, alone, like this? Shouldn't Uther's fighting force be right on his heels? Yeah, the official games do this sort of thing routinely, but there's usually some weak justification for it, not to mention they're just plain scripted to ignore 90% of your characters since they can die, and that's not how Immortal Sword has comported itself. The blood on Uther's face looks weirdly out of place after he's injured, too, and I'm not even sure why. My initial impression was that it looked like it was lazily pasted over his face, but closer inspection doesn't jive with that, so I'm not sure what gave me that impression.

I am sort of amused to see, having gone to double-check "Who was Uther in canon, again?" that this scene is providing the explanation for where Uther's two scars came from. Though the forehead wound is angled differently from his scar in Rekka no Ken, actually.

I also meant to comment when I was talking about the fight-Richard mission, that it might be a good idea to have battle music continue off its last position instead of restarting for every fresh combat. It's not Fire Emblem tradition, I know, but it was shockingly grating having this big battle with NPCs and hostile AI forces every 5-10 seconds replaying the exact same stretch of battle music, and frankly I've never understood why the games don't work that way in the first place, given how often the battle music is so long that you'll never hear remotely the entire thing without taking advantage of dialogue freezing the battle while allowing the music to continue. (Back when I first played Sacred Stones I actually thought it did work that way. Not sure why. Maybe I got thrown by the fact that the overland music very blatantly carried on from its last position?)

The stand-in art for Uther getting cut amused me for some reason. No idea why. Also suggests that I really am approaching the end of current content... maybe.
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deranger
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deranger
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16 Feb 2017, 19:28 #22

I'll do my best to not highjack this thread, but not all of these are strictly responses. Just some thoughts related.

I like how the reduced movement kind of spread out part 1 of chapter 12 (and made the fog easier to deal with). It made me feel like I was commanding units on a more zoomed out scale, which I thought worked well for the outdoor portion of a castle attack.

Didn't bring Madelyn or Roeis? Never really thought of using Augustus as a healer in any significant way. Guess it'll be easier once he can move. That's soon, right?

Arc wind, fire, and thunder all have x2 bonuses against their specific type (fliers, cavalry, and armours, respectively). Bows also usually only do x2 to fliers.

I like how the arm movement of the Wizard gives a "conjuring" feel to their spell casting.

Never noticed how the battle music continues, but that's definitely a plus.

For the devs: Why are dracoknights not heavy armour despite having saviour? Even Dragon Masters are (which I think makes sense). Madelyn can have hers explained away with magic, but it always seemed odd to me that dracoknights get it without the heavy armour. Cohorts don't get it, despite promoting into it and heavy armour (though they lose instead of gain a movement, so maybe that works). Not saying it's wrong, just wondering the rationale.

Aside also for the devs: why was the torch staff in Ch 7 changed to a barrier?
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Myke
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17 Feb 2017, 07:02 #23

I feel like you're trying to drive at something with the rest of this paragraph, but I honestly have no clue what it could be.
'Damn' in the archaic usage is equivalent to 'fuck' in the modern parlance. So it makes sense to use 'fuck' wherever a medieval person would use 'damn'.


I never saw Sol in action, because the one time Richard triggered it, he missed. (I know he triggered it entirely because his meter depleted) Still unclear on the mechanics of skills, as such. Oh well. I now know they can be wasted on a miss, at least, which is useful info for when/if I get such a skill myself, and I also know they charge as turns pass or something of the sort -I was actually expecting this to be kind of like Will in Taisen, with him only charging for participating in battles himself, so I've learned something.
You realise that Eagler has the same skill that Richard is using, right?



I have no idea why the wizard got that arm-wave added. \0_o/


For the devs: Why are dracoknights not heavy armour despite having saviour? Even Dragon Masters are (which I think makes sense). Madelyn can have hers explained away with magic, but it always seemed odd to me that dracoknights get it without the heavy armour. Cohorts don't get it, despite promoting into it and heavy armour (though they lose instead of gain a movement, so maybe that works). Not saying it's wrong, just wondering the rationale.
Pretty sure dracoknights are heavy armour? If they aren't, draco masters are.


Aside also for the devs: why was the torch staff in Ch 7 changed to a barrier?
Don't remember P:
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deranger
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17 Feb 2017, 15:12 #24

You realise that Eagler has the same skill that Richard is using, right?
Eagler doesn't start with it, though.
Mastery Skill Acquiring:
[+] spoiler
Mastery skills are obtained at lvl 5 of tier 2.
Pretty sure dracoknights are heavy armour? If they aren't, draco masters are.
Dracoknights aren't currently, draco masters are. Though they don't appear in Uther P1, and I can understand the trail maps getting minimal attention. I forget if witches appear in Uther P1. Think every other enemy t1 does, outside of the obvious lords and musicians.
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Ghoul King
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17 Feb 2017, 20:10 #25

I like how the reduced movement kind of spread out part 1 of chapter 12 (and made the fog easier to deal with). It made me feel like I was commanding units on a more zoomed out scale, which I thought worked well for the outdoor portion of a castle attack.
Overall I liked it too, but it was very odd having everyone go "The rain will make this harder for us/you!" and then having it make the mission easier.

The only difficulty I did experience was that the two battle groups were effectively isolated from each other even though it was technically possible to walk straight from one to the other.
Didn't bring Madelyn or Roeis? Never really thought of using Augustus as a healer in any significant way. Guess it'll be easier once he can move. That's soon, right?
I brought Madelyn, but it wasn't practical to have her handling both groups. I brought the tent since the mission's fog nature meant I had no idea whether I'd end up accidentally wasting loot if I didn't, so he handled the healing on the right side, while she handled the left.

Which ended up being annoying since the majority of the damage suffered by units happened on the right side. Madelyn spent maybe half her turns healing people.
Arc wind, fire, and thunder all have x2 bonuses against their specific type (fliers, cavalry, and armours, respectively). Bows also usually only do x2 to fliers.
Interesting.

I actually noticed the Bows thing doing part 2 of chapter 12, as I ended up at one point having to leave my Pegasus Knight vulnerable to Bow fire due to bad luck and then I was confused when she only took like 15 damage when I was expecting 30.
Never noticed how the battle music continues, but that's definitely a plus.
I was saying that it doesn't, and might be worth making it do so.
'Damn' in the archaic usage is equivalent to 'fuck' in the modern parlance. So it makes sense to use 'fuck' wherever a medieval person would use 'damn'.
Not really? Archaically, 'damn' is usually specific. You wouldn't actually just say "Damn!" You'd say "Damn you!" or "Damn the weather!" or, if you were really frustrated/trying to be shocking "Damn everything!"

In general the modern usage of expletives as simple venting in a non-grammatical way is actually kind of weird.

I can kind of see the argument as far as 'emotional charge', but at the same time 'damn' is religious/moral while 'fuck' is sexual, so I don't think it quite works, personally.
You realise that Eagler has the same skill that Richard is using, right?
I stopped using him the instant I could do so, and he doesn't start with it, so no.
I have no idea why the wizard got that arm-wave added. \0_o/
Well, that's going to bother me forever now.

----------------

Completed part 2.

You have no idea how much I appreciate walls actually blocking fire, with crenels to still allow the occasional archer-behind-a-wall without just ruining my suspension of disbelief. (Though there's a crenel in the upper right of the map that is literally pointless, as just south of it is not actually a passable tile. It looks passable, but it's not, and so without a Longbow getting involved it's basically a 'fake' crenel. And there's no Longbows as yet)

The Longbowman's overland sprite could maybe use some work. It's too similar to the Archer's at the moment -by the time I got to the Longbowman in the north I'd forgotten he was a promoted unit and his graphic didn't clue me, and it was only sheer blind luck that Marcus happened to have enough HP to survive his crit with 1 hit point.

The mission itself had a chaotic start, but to my surprise wasn't really that difficult once I got past that initial bit, even with stuff like a Silence Staff user. (I found it very interesting that he tried to Silence Uther, who had the Lightbrand in his inventory but not his hands) The trickiest bit was killing the boss, and I had so many horse-slaying items that it was only an issue to the extent that they weighed my units down enough for him to double them. He'd be trivialized by Eagler with a Horseslayer, for example. He also never actually triggered Sol even though he had the charge, so I'm still mystified.

Still not sure what bothered me about the blood on Uther's graphic. Whatever it was, the version where he's been cleaned up a bit but still has lines of blood doesn't have that issue. No idea what the difference that matters is. (Aside: I liked that his face portrait was changed for status screen/combat head portrait purposes, too)

I was honestly a bit surprised when the mission ended and it was, indeed, the final mission of the current version of the game. I was actually expecting one more mission of "Now, this is your truly for realzy-realz final fight of finalness, finally!" I guess it's time for me to push through Hard mode, maybe re-do the Juniors mission on Normal so I can see what happens if none of them die. Oh, and do Trial Map 2 of course. Kind of surprised I didn't unlock a Trial Map 3, and half-wondering if the later ones demand I do the earlier ones or if it's just "incomplete game, duh".

Strangely, I got a 37 in Speed. I could have been 3 turns faster in part 1, if I'd been suicidally aggressive/known the map from having played it before, and if I'd planned better I could have been one or two turns faster in killing the boss in part 2, but 37 suggests I'm expected to go so insanely fast I'm puzzled as to how it's even possible to do.

Also, it seemed to me like Madelyn was getting less experience from Staves as she gained levels, instead of only reducing with class change? In which case I might retract my retraction about her leveling too slowly.

I quite liked the Zweihander's magic sword animation, incidentally. I also like Worm's animation, and I'm pretty sure it's new to Immortal Sword?

I think I'm overall happy to see 3-7 range Siege Tomes. 3-10 demands an insane amount of movement to be able to get into the range shadow from outside of it, 3-7 just demands cavalry to do the same, which makes immobile Siege Tome guys a lot less silly. I mean, personally I'd rather Siege Tomes weren't balanced around the (not-actually-gameplay-enforced) assumption that you don't move when firing them, but this is still an improvement overall.

I found it sort of amusing how everybody in chapter 12 is Intruder/grey. A semi-subtle way of the game driving home the idea that these are cutthroats and bandits and deserters and so on, not a real army.
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Myke
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Myke
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Joined: 16 Apr 2009, 17:54

18 Feb 2017, 11:07 #26

C- oh I always forget that we changed masteries

B- thanks for all the notes, we're going to be taking a close look at chapter rankings in particular
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deranger
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deranger
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Joined: 14 Apr 2011, 05:50

18 Feb 2017, 20:09 #27

Anticipation seems like an almost better mastery than straifing. not that I mind Hassar being able to build that sword rank right away.

Don't you guys get a fair amount of data about chapter ratings directly? Make the Trial Map 3 speed rating harder. Except don't because of the master skill change.
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Myke
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Myke
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Joined: 16 Apr 2009, 17:54

21 Feb 2017, 09:03 #28

B- we have a good idea of what we want based on metrics, yeah
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